Although on the surface it looks like an ever-rarer wholesome family film, Catholics should exercise prudence about taking the family to this movie on opening weekend
There are an intriguing amount of comments on this post from a Catholic writer on a Catholic blog that seemed surprised to find that Catholics do in fact believe things which the Catholic Church teaches. It is like being surprised to find that Muslims believe that Allah is god and Muhammed is his prophet. I see nothing in this post that insinuates non-Catholics need to hold to such doctrines, but given the authorship and obvious intended audience (i.e., Catholics), I must say I am surprised at the surprise.
If Mary was sinless what did we need Jesus for? The penalty for sin was death and it had to be a spotless lamb. Jesus was that spotless Lamb of God not Mary. There's no such thing as a co-redeemer. Jesus was the one and only one nailed to the cross. He's the one that died for our sins And yes including Mary sins and Joseph. "Letting" Mary be a sinner doesn't make her any less important to the birth of Christ. It was an incredible honor The honor of all honors to give birth to the son of God. And would you quit saying that Mary is the mother of God she is the mother of Jesus yahshua our Redeemer our savior. When you say that it's like you're saying she's the mother of the Trinity. Mary is not part of the Trinity she did not give birth to the Trinity she did not give birth to the father or to the holy Spirit she gave birth to the son. This is simple stuff people. And why does Mary have to be immaculately conceived? Here again you're making her on the same level as Jesus Jesus was immaculately conceived. Lord have mercy if Mary could come down and say something she would say what the heck is wrong with you people. She would say I was conceived like every other human out of the love between my mom and my dad helloooo. Yes Mary was a virgin and gave birth to Jesus. Why does she have to forever be virgin? Are you saying that sexual intercourse between a man and his wife is a sin? If they had not consummated their marriage after Jesus was born I would say it wasn't even a legal marriage even at that time. I think this whole thing of forever virgin was cooked up by those who thought sexual intercourse was a sin. God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful! Mary is just as wonderful a mother to Jesus as she was to her other children!! I know you just passed out on the floor. There's only one mediator between the father and man and that is his son Jesus Christ. Not Mary not Joseph not saint whatever whoever not priests or popes. Christ and Christ alone is on the universe's throne.
The difference is that Jesus is fully human and fully divine. That is the way He was able to remain sinless and be the spotless lamb that no other human could. Mary was wholly human.
Adam and Eve were human, not divine, yet they were sinless before the Fall. Sin is not innate to human nature, it is like an injury to our nature. Catholics believe that God preserved Mary from acquiring original sin by the foreseen sin-cleansing merits of Christ. If Jesus can save us from sin today, nearly two millennia after his Crucifixion, He also can save Mary at her conception, a few decades before His Crucifixion, because God is eternal, not subject to time. If Jesus had not preserved His Mother from original sin, she would have been a sinner like other descendants of Adam.
If Mary never sinned then she could have been The spotless Lamb of God and then you could have had what you've wished for all along and that is to nail Mary to the cross. I mean you say she was conceived herself by the holy Spirit and not a man, and that she was sinless, the very two things that the son of God Jesus Christ was. I think you guys would have been so happy if You know Jesus was on one side of the cross and Mary on the back side. Other than Catholic " tradition " there is no proof or mention in the Bible anywhere that Mary was chosen because she was sinless. You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own set of facts. Tradition can never trump truth.
She is sinless because keharitomene full of grace. You cannot be full of grace and keharitomene if you have sinned. And she could not be the lamb, because only God could be the lamb.
... All men (and women) have sinned and come short of the glory of God. The word sin literally means to miss the mark, it was an archer's term when they failed to hit the bullseye. Mary herself called Jesus her Savior. You don't need a savior if you ain't a sinner. Catholics just can't seem to stop trying to nail Mary to that cross. I'm an ex Catholic and I know they used to call her co- Redeemer. Mary did not die on the cross and she did not ascend into heaven just like Jesus did. Mary could not pay for the sins of the world, or forgive people or heal people or perform miracles cuz she was just Mary an obedient servant of God. Speaking of dying on the cross The book of Hebrews chapter 9 verses 25 and 28 you will read that Jesus didn't ascend into heaven just to be sacrificed over and over and over again, continues on to say he was sacrificed ONCE for all mankind. READ THE BOOK OF HEBREWS PEOPLE. It explains the sacrificial system and how Jesus fulfilled the shadows of all that. When you go to Mass the priest is dragging Jesus right off that cross and killing him again and again and again sacrificing him on that altar. Why? He has to wash his hands just like they describe in the book of Hebrews that the High priest did and it's just a reenactment, the mass is totally a reenactment of the Jewish sacrificial system that Jesus came to do away with. When Jesus died on the cross that system was done away with The curtain in the temple was torn from top to bottom to indicate that no man had torn it God had torn it. The only sacrifice he wants now is the sacrifice of our praise. No longer was God kept away from the people people could now go straight to God, without any priest as a mediator. because of what Jesus did on the cross. Take Jesus off that crucifix my wonderful Catholic friends please people He does not belong there He is the RISEN Lord and he is not to be sacrificed over and over and over again Scripture says he was sacrificed once for all mankind. So where would that leave you all without the mass? Preaching the simple gospel. Jesus saves.
I fear the more we nitpick things that can act as a passage to bring young people to Christ, the more we will lose them (young people). Media like this is important for reaching young people because it combines scripture with things that we enjoy, like musicals. We should not throw it all away just because something doesn't align completely. It can be a learning moment too. People can take the parts of it that do not align with Catholicism and turn it into a beautiful teaching moment. It was a piece of media like this that brought me back to the faith. Was it historically accurate or in line with all the teachings of our church? No. But it got me back and made me seek out our faith and read the Gospels. I respect you and your opinion, I just feel that we need to recognize that something doesn’t need to be perfect to have a positive impact.
I am Catholic and pray that this movie may bring people closer to Christ, no matter their denomination and especially if they are lukewarm in their faith. Holy Spirit come! I can't wait to see it!
Well, it doesn't mean you would recommend it. You would go with a proper Mary depiction, such as "Mary of Nazarerh" with Alissa Jung, even if the story is not biblical
I am just glad to see an about the birth of Jesus that may appeal to the masses, causing someone our there to seek more of the story…. It’s about planting the seed, it’s about evangelizing Christ and His story. Rejoice and be glad and pray for all those people out there who don’t know what Christmas really is, to finally know. I’m sure that’s all Jesus would care about, planting a seed
I would say that this movie was amazing. It may not depict exactly all the events of the nativity, but it is a beautiful, fun Catholic movie, or Christian movie that children will benefit from even if it is a start to them actually seeing a movie that could possibly bring Christ back into a family, life and today’s day and age we made a lot more of that. God bless to all may the Lord please forgive us of all our sins we all hold Jesus in the highest light, we possibly can all my love to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Joe I watched the movie and I am a young catholic. Now yes I understand some of you points but I believe that this movie wasn’t made for Evangelical Protestants, Catholics or and other denominations. This movie was made to bring young people who don’t know about God and Jesus to Him. Yes it may not highlight the major points that us as Catholics believe in but we know them to be true. But this movie is to bring people to God and rejoice Him. Isn’t that what we Catholics are supposed to do is teach and preach about God to bring more people to him? Whether it is fully accurate to what we believe or not it will bring people to God. The music in it is not to try to take away from the story it’s to bring more people to God, by having good music and filming it will attract more people to see the movie and know of the Lord and Savior.
I think that you are wrong on that catholic family’s should stay weary of the movie bc of it not being 100% accurate to what we believe. I think that it will bring the kids closer and want to learn more about it. So that now they will listen to the story or read it in the Bible to know the story more. Understand exactly what happened. Yes the movie is a generalization of what happened but I know I watched the movie and wanted to go back to the Bible and read about it again.
Then again, you are getting lies. And that's not a good start at all. Of course I wouldn't want a child to watch it when I'm trying to teach him/her how these role models were, what actually is love. Otherwise, you are not teaching
Hahaha. The whole idea of immaculate conception came about in the 2nd century based on book of james. Catholics get it wrong also about Jesus’ half brothers being “cousins” even when cousins word in greek was used dor elizabeth’s relationship to Mary
So Mary and Joseph were engaged and I'm guessing in love before either one of them was visited by an angel right? So why wouldn't they be thinking of romantic things before they were visited. Also you make it sound like it would have been a sin if this man and woman kissed. They were married right? Matthew chapter 1 verse 24 says Joseph took Mary home as his wife. So Catholics believe Mary was forever virgin, I don't believe that but I know you do, but so you're saying also Catholics believe Mary was never kissed by Joseph? Poor Joseph.
While your description of the relationship between Mary and Joseph does seem somewhat inappropriate and far from the cultural norms of first century Judiasm, I'm almost equally disturbed by your ascertain that Protestants (Evangelical or not) do not believe in the immaculate conception. I have never met a Christian from any denomination you claimed this. I agree that many Christians appear to belive that Mary was not sinless but was willing to be used for God's purposes and that she didn't remain a virgin because Jesus had siblings, but that does not mean they don't believe in the miraculous conception by which the incarnation came about.
The Immaculate Conception is not Jesus' virginal conception by which the Incarnation occurred. That is a common misunderstanding. The Immaculate Conception refers to Mary's sinless conception in the womb of her mother, Saint Anne. That's why Catholics celebrate the Feast of the Immaculate Conception on December 8 (nine months before Mary's Nativity on September 8) and the Feast of the Annunciation on March 25 (nine months before Jesus' Nativity on December 25)
Totally unfounded by scripture.The Bible says that God is a jealous God. Thou shalt have no other gods except me. Catholics turn themselves inside out trying to make Mary a little demigod. Mary herself call Jesus her Savior. You don't need a savior if you ain't a sinner.
Mary is not seen as God and in the bible it talks about Mary ,she intercedes for us,pray for us ..nobody says we see her as a God.she is closer to our lord Jesus .
This is not Protestant media Joe you are wrong. As a Christian I would not see this movie because musicals lend themselves by nature to not being serious and this subject matter is beloved by all that have faith and believe.
Do we not sing of the birth of Jesus repeatedly in our services around Christmas? If it's done respectfully and with deference to Scripture, there's no reason why it can't be acceptable Christian media.
You are mistaken when you say Protestants do not believe in the Immaculate Conception. It is a primary tenant of our faith. In addition, if the portrayal of the Holy Family has pop cultural overtones as shown in the trailers (Disneyesque characters and behavior), this Protestant won't be seeing it.
Respectfully, I think there may be some confusion. In Catholic teaching, the "Immaculate Conception" refers to the teaching that Mary was conceived in her mother's womb without original sin, and that she remained sinless. This view is generally not accepted by protestants. Both Catholics and protestants accept together the doctrine of the virgin birth of Christ, the fact that He had no earthly father but was conceived in Mary's womb by the Holy Spirit. Hope that makes sense!
Interesting that you are combining the teaching of miraculous conception by the Holy Spirit in Mary and the teaching that she "remained" sinless. I'd be interested in finding out how this is explained when Mary was wholly human (without divinity) and therefore a sinful as any other human.
Why do Protestants feel the need to come onto a Catholic website about films and try to catechise us. Jim, MJ, go somewhere else with your heresy. Imagine the arrogance of trying to teach the Church of Jesus how to interpret the Bible that it put together!
There are an intriguing amount of comments on this post from a Catholic writer on a Catholic blog that seemed surprised to find that Catholics do in fact believe things which the Catholic Church teaches. It is like being surprised to find that Muslims believe that Allah is god and Muhammed is his prophet. I see nothing in this post that insinuates non-Catholics need to hold to such doctrines, but given the authorship and obvious intended audience (i.e., Catholics), I must say I am surprised at the surprise.
reddit tier comment
Wait wait wait..... you don't think Mary sinned? She was human, ALL have sinned.
If Mary was sinless what did we need Jesus for? The penalty for sin was death and it had to be a spotless lamb. Jesus was that spotless Lamb of God not Mary. There's no such thing as a co-redeemer. Jesus was the one and only one nailed to the cross. He's the one that died for our sins And yes including Mary sins and Joseph. "Letting" Mary be a sinner doesn't make her any less important to the birth of Christ. It was an incredible honor The honor of all honors to give birth to the son of God. And would you quit saying that Mary is the mother of God she is the mother of Jesus yahshua our Redeemer our savior. When you say that it's like you're saying she's the mother of the Trinity. Mary is not part of the Trinity she did not give birth to the Trinity she did not give birth to the father or to the holy Spirit she gave birth to the son. This is simple stuff people. And why does Mary have to be immaculately conceived? Here again you're making her on the same level as Jesus Jesus was immaculately conceived. Lord have mercy if Mary could come down and say something she would say what the heck is wrong with you people. She would say I was conceived like every other human out of the love between my mom and my dad helloooo. Yes Mary was a virgin and gave birth to Jesus. Why does she have to forever be virgin? Are you saying that sexual intercourse between a man and his wife is a sin? If they had not consummated their marriage after Jesus was born I would say it wasn't even a legal marriage even at that time. I think this whole thing of forever virgin was cooked up by those who thought sexual intercourse was a sin. God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful! Mary is just as wonderful a mother to Jesus as she was to her other children!! I know you just passed out on the floor. There's only one mediator between the father and man and that is his son Jesus Christ. Not Mary not Joseph not saint whatever whoever not priests or popes. Christ and Christ alone is on the universe's throne.
So was Jesus (fully human) and he never sinned. Doesn’t that completely contradict your point?
The difference is that Jesus is fully human and fully divine. That is the way He was able to remain sinless and be the spotless lamb that no other human could. Mary was wholly human.
Adam and Eve were human, not divine, yet they were sinless before the Fall. Sin is not innate to human nature, it is like an injury to our nature. Catholics believe that God preserved Mary from acquiring original sin by the foreseen sin-cleansing merits of Christ. If Jesus can save us from sin today, nearly two millennia after his Crucifixion, He also can save Mary at her conception, a few decades before His Crucifixion, because God is eternal, not subject to time. If Jesus had not preserved His Mother from original sin, she would have been a sinner like other descendants of Adam.
Here's an explanation: https://web.archive.org/web/20090109035311/http://home.earthlink.net/~mysticalrose/marian4.html
Mary never sinned ,that's why she was chosen to give birth to Jesus ,you need to be pure and she was very humble,simple, obedient with her family.🙄🙄🙄🙄
Sinners have been chosen to do extraordinary things for God, but they were still sinners, just like Mary.
Amen MJ
If Mary never sinned then she could have been The spotless Lamb of God and then you could have had what you've wished for all along and that is to nail Mary to the cross. I mean you say she was conceived herself by the holy Spirit and not a man, and that she was sinless, the very two things that the son of God Jesus Christ was. I think you guys would have been so happy if You know Jesus was on one side of the cross and Mary on the back side. Other than Catholic " tradition " there is no proof or mention in the Bible anywhere that Mary was chosen because she was sinless. You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own set of facts. Tradition can never trump truth.
She is sinless because keharitomene full of grace. You cannot be full of grace and keharitomene if you have sinned. And she could not be the lamb, because only God could be the lamb.
... All men (and women) have sinned and come short of the glory of God. The word sin literally means to miss the mark, it was an archer's term when they failed to hit the bullseye. Mary herself called Jesus her Savior. You don't need a savior if you ain't a sinner. Catholics just can't seem to stop trying to nail Mary to that cross. I'm an ex Catholic and I know they used to call her co- Redeemer. Mary did not die on the cross and she did not ascend into heaven just like Jesus did. Mary could not pay for the sins of the world, or forgive people or heal people or perform miracles cuz she was just Mary an obedient servant of God. Speaking of dying on the cross The book of Hebrews chapter 9 verses 25 and 28 you will read that Jesus didn't ascend into heaven just to be sacrificed over and over and over again, continues on to say he was sacrificed ONCE for all mankind. READ THE BOOK OF HEBREWS PEOPLE. It explains the sacrificial system and how Jesus fulfilled the shadows of all that. When you go to Mass the priest is dragging Jesus right off that cross and killing him again and again and again sacrificing him on that altar. Why? He has to wash his hands just like they describe in the book of Hebrews that the High priest did and it's just a reenactment, the mass is totally a reenactment of the Jewish sacrificial system that Jesus came to do away with. When Jesus died on the cross that system was done away with The curtain in the temple was torn from top to bottom to indicate that no man had torn it God had torn it. The only sacrifice he wants now is the sacrifice of our praise. No longer was God kept away from the people people could now go straight to God, without any priest as a mediator. because of what Jesus did on the cross. Take Jesus off that crucifix my wonderful Catholic friends please people He does not belong there He is the RISEN Lord and he is not to be sacrificed over and over and over again Scripture says he was sacrificed once for all mankind. So where would that leave you all without the mass? Preaching the simple gospel. Jesus saves.
Any thoughts about movies?
Every proper Christian died in that cross.
I fear the more we nitpick things that can act as a passage to bring young people to Christ, the more we will lose them (young people). Media like this is important for reaching young people because it combines scripture with things that we enjoy, like musicals. We should not throw it all away just because something doesn't align completely. It can be a learning moment too. People can take the parts of it that do not align with Catholicism and turn it into a beautiful teaching moment. It was a piece of media like this that brought me back to the faith. Was it historically accurate or in line with all the teachings of our church? No. But it got me back and made me seek out our faith and read the Gospels. I respect you and your opinion, I just feel that we need to recognize that something doesn’t need to be perfect to have a positive impact.
I am Catholic and pray that this movie may bring people closer to Christ, no matter their denomination and especially if they are lukewarm in their faith. Holy Spirit come! I can't wait to see it!
Well, it doesn't mean you would recommend it. You would go with a proper Mary depiction, such as "Mary of Nazarerh" with Alissa Jung, even if the story is not biblical
With an open mind, and, being a gentile, I would hope that the film will create an interest in people who seek more.
I am just glad to see an about the birth of Jesus that may appeal to the masses, causing someone our there to seek more of the story…. It’s about planting the seed, it’s about evangelizing Christ and His story. Rejoice and be glad and pray for all those people out there who don’t know what Christmas really is, to finally know. I’m sure that’s all Jesus would care about, planting a seed
Thank you for this veru useful warning!
I would say that this movie was amazing. It may not depict exactly all the events of the nativity, but it is a beautiful, fun Catholic movie, or Christian movie that children will benefit from even if it is a start to them actually seeing a movie that could possibly bring Christ back into a family, life and today’s day and age we made a lot more of that. God bless to all may the Lord please forgive us of all our sins we all hold Jesus in the highest light, we possibly can all my love to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Joe I watched the movie and I am a young catholic. Now yes I understand some of you points but I believe that this movie wasn’t made for Evangelical Protestants, Catholics or and other denominations. This movie was made to bring young people who don’t know about God and Jesus to Him. Yes it may not highlight the major points that us as Catholics believe in but we know them to be true. But this movie is to bring people to God and rejoice Him. Isn’t that what we Catholics are supposed to do is teach and preach about God to bring more people to him? Whether it is fully accurate to what we believe or not it will bring people to God. The music in it is not to try to take away from the story it’s to bring more people to God, by having good music and filming it will attract more people to see the movie and know of the Lord and Savior.
I think that you are wrong on that catholic family’s should stay weary of the movie bc of it not being 100% accurate to what we believe. I think that it will bring the kids closer and want to learn more about it. So that now they will listen to the story or read it in the Bible to know the story more. Understand exactly what happened. Yes the movie is a generalization of what happened but I know I watched the movie and wanted to go back to the Bible and read about it again.
Then again, you are getting lies. And that's not a good start at all. Of course I wouldn't want a child to watch it when I'm trying to teach him/her how these role models were, what actually is love. Otherwise, you are not teaching
Hahaha. The whole idea of immaculate conception came about in the 2nd century based on book of james. Catholics get it wrong also about Jesus’ half brothers being “cousins” even when cousins word in greek was used dor elizabeth’s relationship to Mary
Excuse me. the Gospel of James. Not the book of James
Hi Lily I love that name!
May I politely ask you where in the Bible It says Mary intercedes for us.
Jim
Jim, stop flirting in the comment section.
So Mary and Joseph were engaged and I'm guessing in love before either one of them was visited by an angel right? So why wouldn't they be thinking of romantic things before they were visited. Also you make it sound like it would have been a sin if this man and woman kissed. They were married right? Matthew chapter 1 verse 24 says Joseph took Mary home as his wife. So Catholics believe Mary was forever virgin, I don't believe that but I know you do, but so you're saying also Catholics believe Mary was never kissed by Joseph? Poor Joseph.
While your description of the relationship between Mary and Joseph does seem somewhat inappropriate and far from the cultural norms of first century Judiasm, I'm almost equally disturbed by your ascertain that Protestants (Evangelical or not) do not believe in the immaculate conception. I have never met a Christian from any denomination you claimed this. I agree that many Christians appear to belive that Mary was not sinless but was willing to be used for God's purposes and that she didn't remain a virgin because Jesus had siblings, but that does not mean they don't believe in the miraculous conception by which the incarnation came about.
The Immaculate Conception is not Jesus' virginal conception by which the Incarnation occurred. That is a common misunderstanding. The Immaculate Conception refers to Mary's sinless conception in the womb of her mother, Saint Anne. That's why Catholics celebrate the Feast of the Immaculate Conception on December 8 (nine months before Mary's Nativity on September 8) and the Feast of the Annunciation on March 25 (nine months before Jesus' Nativity on December 25)
Totally unfounded by scripture.The Bible says that God is a jealous God. Thou shalt have no other gods except me. Catholics turn themselves inside out trying to make Mary a little demigod. Mary herself call Jesus her Savior. You don't need a savior if you ain't a sinner.
Mary is not seen as God and in the bible it talks about Mary ,she intercedes for us,pray for us ..nobody says we see her as a God.she is closer to our lord Jesus .
This is not Protestant media Joe you are wrong. As a Christian I would not see this movie because musicals lend themselves by nature to not being serious and this subject matter is beloved by all that have faith and believe.
Do we not sing of the birth of Jesus repeatedly in our services around Christmas? If it's done respectfully and with deference to Scripture, there's no reason why it can't be acceptable Christian media.
You are mistaken when you say Protestants do not believe in the Immaculate Conception. It is a primary tenant of our faith. In addition, if the portrayal of the Holy Family has pop cultural overtones as shown in the trailers (Disneyesque characters and behavior), this Protestant won't be seeing it.
Respectfully, I think there may be some confusion. In Catholic teaching, the "Immaculate Conception" refers to the teaching that Mary was conceived in her mother's womb without original sin, and that she remained sinless. This view is generally not accepted by protestants. Both Catholics and protestants accept together the doctrine of the virgin birth of Christ, the fact that He had no earthly father but was conceived in Mary's womb by the Holy Spirit. Hope that makes sense!
That's ludicrous
Interesting that you are combining the teaching of miraculous conception by the Holy Spirit in Mary and the teaching that she "remained" sinless. I'd be interested in finding out how this is explained when Mary was wholly human (without divinity) and therefore a sinful as any other human.
https://www.catholic.com/tract/immaculate-conception-and-assumption
Correct. The Catholic Church continues to be one of the world's dominant and most unshakable patriarchies.
Isn't it wonderful? 😊
Why do Protestants feel the need to come onto a Catholic website about films and try to catechise us. Jim, MJ, go somewhere else with your heresy. Imagine the arrogance of trying to teach the Church of Jesus how to interpret the Bible that it put together!